Cathy: I’m encountering more and more with this in particular because I work specifically with women and the women that are approaching me are almost searching for a foundation upon which to grow their psychedelic exploration or their entheogenic exploration that allows them to tap back into this type of landscape. And you mentioned in the book getting higher about the nature vigil, or you could use the word vision quest, and it’s something that I found very powerful in my own development and practice in terms of bringing in Gnosis around what makes sense to me about how I interact with the medicine and how I interact with the spirits that I work with. And so I’d love to hear a little bit about the quest and vigil.

Julian: So I have a good friend who’s called Lavanya Morgan, and she’s just reissued a book called a witches mirror. It’s got all kinds of things that help like the act of making things as part of its kind of magical process of actually constructing various objects or challenging materials in the landscape. And so she talks a lot about the sitting hours process of going to a place and just being with it for a long time. Nothing beyond that, nothing else, no other special kind of process. Just go and spend a lot of time in the place she talks about going to the ocean, don’t see the city with the sea for at least the incoming and the outgoing and just being with it. And obviously, in our culture, we sort of think Well, that’s depth, that’s not really anything, is it just simply the thing really. Beyond that, surely there’s something more.

Spend quality time with that place. Just in the same way you spend quality time with the feeling of the medicine. Spend quality time with whatever.

Cathy: Yeah, I love it. I love that reflection on it. And I often say myself that when I’m working with women and my teachers a lot of my own practice involves traveling to spend time with oak for five, six days in the forest and just sitting and I often tell people that witchcraft from that instance is the art of the subtle.